19 responses to “AMA Document on Collaborative agreements”

  1. Adrienne Gaha-Morris

    Anyting that undermines the rights of women needs needs to be desputed

  2. Janet

    Like you I’m not a bit surprised by this. Can we stop pretending it’s a Great Leap Forward for women yet?

  3. Rachele Meredith

    Surprise, surprise. I wonder if anyone out there STILL thinks this is positive and “will make midwifery care available to women who can’t currently afford it”? I wonder what the reaction will be when the MBS schedule is finally released and people realise just how small an amount of money they have sold out women and midwifery for. I too was called a pessimist, conspiracy theorist, paranoid, etc and assured that this would benefit women and midwives. Oh well, sucked in to those greedy b*tches who sold us all down the river for the promise of a buck and some professional status. Were they really that desperate for a bit of acceptance and respect from doctors? Hope they’re happy now.

  4. Kathryn Williams

    Excellent, now I can just get a nice job in a GP’s office – get some knee pads and get on with it. Coffee at 9am, see 50 women a day, home at 5pm, regular wage, thanks very much. If the women complain about 5 minute appointments, as one Dr said F*ck em. VOMIT, VOMIT, VOMIT +++ Is it too early for a gin and tonic?

  5. Rebecca aka Freakypet

    Well, like you Lisa, I was CONSTANTLY told to stop being so bloody negative, stop bleating to everyone how bad this was because it WASN’T, that I was simply being a pessimist, blah blah blah!! I NEVER trusted this and now………..

    Like everyone else has commented on here, we were sold out so that the girls could get a generous pat on the head from the big Doctor-Men. Hope it was worth it for them.

    Still means that I will home birth, regardless of the ‘rules and regs’ the AMA put in. They can kiss my ass.

    Keep up the good work Lisa!!!!

  6. Tiffany Zimmermann

    DITTO to all the previous posts…

    Underground here we come I guess?

  7. Tammy

    I guess that the people who are writing this are thinking completely from their own perspective…that of the hospital…and in that respect perhaps it is a step forward because it is giving midwives in a hospital setting more power (if I am reading correctly).

    But for those of us who choose not to accept a hospital model, as everyone has already said it is ten kinds of steps backwards. The kicker is that they think they have been so generous and forthcoming with this that they feel totally justified in saying “but we have tried”…I particularly liked this little gem:

    “The medical profession is known for innovation. We have led the way in developing new
    techniques, therapies and models of care. We embrace change when it is in the best
    interests of our patients.”


    “The AMA has worked very hard to ensure that these reforms do not fragment patient care
    or deny patients access to a medical practitioner.”

    But I guess my favourite is this one which really sums everything up:

    “In a sense, this statutory requirement reflects the planned team care arrangements that
    have set parameters for collaboration in areas where doctors, midwives and nurses have
    always worked together – our hospitals.”

    So long as you go along with the doctor-Gods and do what your told where you’re told then we’ll maybe *pretend* to listen to you.

    They sum it up nicely with these last bits:

    “However, the requirement for a collaborative arrangement with a medical practitioner
    puts in place an overarching quality framework to preserve patient safety and ensure
    that medical practitioners are not left out of the loop…If we do not embrace these changes, then pressure will mount on the Government to relax the requirement for collaborative arrangements to be in place. This would risk fragmentation of care to the detriment of patients.”

    We wouldn’t want doctors being left out of the loop would we? Birthing as a natural bodily function is just ludicrous…we must involve doctors! Next we’ll be having to book in for daily bowel movements too!

  8. Serafine Nichols

    The Australian College of Midwives is not honouring their purpose. Their purpose is to promote and uphold midwifery as a profession, lead midwifery solidarity, and promote and support normal birth. It goes without saying that it should also promote women’s rights and birth choices. They are failing in their duty of care to women and midwives.

  9. Hannah

    Nice one. Surely the numbers in ‘lala land’ are declining rapidly?

  10. Pauline Costins

    Lisa all I have to say is that you better be mindful of the rummor mill….. you know that defamation is the issuance of a false statement about another person…. you could be sued for defamation.. I am not suggesting that; I am saying be mindful of what you write …. and you are saling close to the wind….when you make rash comments such as “if the rumour mill is true the President of the College of midwives is going to enter an agreement with the President of the AMA.” Slander involves the making of defamatory statements
    Generally speaking, defamation is the issuance of a false statement about another person, which causes that person to suffer harm. Libel involves the making of defamatory statements in a printed or fixed medium. The most important defense to an action for defamation is “truth”, which is an absolute defense to an action for defamation. My warning to you is be mindful because this is a plain untruth, and you are causing trouble with these sorts of statements: it is not the way to win a battle: We all have different ways of seeing things and being defamatory is not becoming, so just be mindful. You might want to check out this website; http://www.efa.org.au/Issues/Censor/defamation.html

  11. Rebecca

    To Pauline Costins – Mindful? Please feel free to inform the rest of us what part of Lisa’s comments are incorrect or untrue?

    As far as I have been able to tell (I have been following this very closely for over 2yrs as I’m one of the PEOPLE it affects the most – the birthing mum) she has been the ONLY one telling us how it WILL be, how it IS and NOT hiding it. So far, Lisa has been right on the button every time. But I (and many others I sure) would be very interested in hearing *if* Lisa has got it ‘wrong’ or Libel or untruthful, etc…

  12. Rachele Meredith

    Interesting document Pauline, thank you for posting it.

    I think you are pointing a finger at the wrong person. I have been told directly from several office bearers in ACM, of certain private midwives who are “cowboys” and “dangerous” complete with supposed details of cases that I KNOW to be incorrect. These statements certainly come under the definition of defamation according to the document you posted. Whether these office bearers are deliberately sharing false information or they have believed gossip and rumour, I don’t know.

    Unfortunately, few private midwives are well enough resourced to sue for defamation no matter how clear cut the case may be. It seems the College has no such problems.

    Rachele Meredith

  13. Pauline Costins

    Lisa my intentions are always honourable, I consider myself a person of principle; the only statement I was referring to was the one that I specifically mentioned, nothing else. Defamation and slander from blogging / internet is one of the fastest growing areas in litigation, all I was reminding you was to be mindful….from one blogger to another; I also to have to stand up for what I believe in and that is the Australian College of Midwives, we as midwives have a professional code of conduct/ethics and a professional body which services all midwives and the women who we care for…..and this professional body is responsible for leading midwifery in Australia: We all have the same common goal and that is to provide women of Australia with safe accessible and affordable maternity care where ever they live and wherever they choose to birth. Yes I am an advocate for homebirth… but midwives & midwifery is not just about homebirth. Whilst none of us like the wording of the determination; and the determination will not solve all the challenges it presents, it will however open the door for many women especially those who are vulnerable and or in isolated communities to finally access the care that you currently provide to women who can afford it. Whilst we continue this back biting between midwives it does not aid our cause…… this public denegation of the peak professional body is very unhelpful… maybe we should take a leaf out of the AMA’s book and stand together…. don’t tell me that every doctor in Australia believes homebirth is unsafe with a competent safe midwife, but they stand together in public. This is an historic time for midwives & midwifery we are all entitled to our beliefs with out being publicly berated for them:

  14. Bel

    Yes, please give an example of who will benefit? I just can’t figure out how any of this new legislation increases access to Midwives or choices in childbirth for women. Midwives working in hospitals surely don’t even need medicare or pbs as there is always an MO around who can provide pathology forms, medication orders etc & obviously women don’t pay in public hospitals anyway. Midwives working outside of hospital won’t be able to access anything as no Dr has any reason to ‘collaborate’ with them & therefore legitamise their practice (uughh). In fact Midwives working outside the hospital system are worse off with all these new restrictions/limitations on their practice & even their ability to be Registered. Does any of this new legislation increase the number of midwifery group practices around the country? How on earth does it help women?? Please explain because I just don’t get it.

  15. Amy

    If this unfortunately gets through and robs women of private, independent Registered Midwives, it will be interesting to see *if* any midwives access the MBS money and for what kind of client. I could already get Medicare funded midwife-led care in hospital… What the hell is changing except the removal of independent midwives, and increased surveillance and control by a separate profession with a different paradigm about pregnancy and birth?

    Who exactly are these women who will benefit? Rural or remote women? Dang, no dr nearby to “collaborate” with, guess they’re back where they currently are…